The unprecedented migrant crisis in New York City has forced Mayor Eric Adams to declare a state of emergency. The influx of asylum seekers has been accelerated by Texas Gov. Greg Abbott, who is is trying to handle his own state’s border issues by busing thousands of migrants to New York. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has also seen a large influx of immigrants from Venezuela, as people try to escape that country’s economic decline. While the number of migrants entering New York City has dropped off significantly in recent weeks, the crisis is still an ongoing national problem.
With this in mind, Errol sat down with his Spectrum colleagues Karina Kling, the host of Capital Tonight on Spectrum News 1 in Austin, and Ybeth Bruzual from Spectrum News 13 in Orlando for a multi-city discussion about asylum seekers entering the United States.
The conversation touched on how this is a bipartisan problem, what impact the general election may have on the crisis and what to expect in the months ahead. Also, they examine whether New York’s relationship with the state of Texas has been strained.
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NY1’s Errol Louis has been interviewing powerful politicians and cultural icons for years, but it’s when the TV cameras are turned off that things really get interesting. From career highlights, to personal moments, to stories that have never been told, join Errol each week for intimate conversations with the people who are shaping the future of New York and beyond. Listen to "You Decide with Errol Louis" every Wednesday, wherever you listen to podcasts.
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Note: Below is a full transcript of the episode. The following is a transcription from a third-party service. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases, it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Errol Louis: Welcome to You Decide. I'm Errol Louis.
Mayor Eric Adams: Today, I am declaring a state of emergency in the city of New York and issuing an executive order. This executive order will formally direct all relevant agencies to coordinate their efforts to construct humanitarian relief centers. We are also suspending certain land use requirements to expedite this process. New York City has already done more than nearly any other city to support this influx of asylum seekers. And we cannot deprive longtime New Yorkers of support and services, even as we address the needs of these new arrivals.
Errol Louis: That was New York City Mayor Eric Adams declaring a state of emergency due to the surge of migrants from South America being sent to New York City in recent months. More than 17,000 and counting, with more apparently on the way. Mayor Adams estimates that the cost of housing and feeding and clothing and educating the new arrivals will exceed $1 billion this year alone. And that's a lot of money, even for New York City. What makes the situation unique is that these arriving migrants are being placed on buses and sent here from the border by the Texas state government, as well as some border cities like El Paso. It's not clear whether the migrants always have a choice about where they are ending up, whether they want to come here or are just asking to go anyplace. New York officials say that some are arriving with medical needs or without adequate food, and certainly without adequate clothing for what is turning into fall, soon to be winter. And this is clearly politics. The move is being driven in some ways by Governor Abbott of Texas, who is running for reelection. And another governor, Ron DeSantis of Florida, has gotten into the act. He also was running for reelection and has gone so far as to charter a plane taking migrants from Texas to Martha's Vineyard, a popular vacation island off the coast of Massachusetts. He has also sent some of the migrants to the residence of the vice president in Washington, D.C.. So how do we get here? Joining me with some insights into the politics of the migrant mess are two of my colleagues at Spectrum News, Ybeth Bruzual is at Spectrum News 13 in Orlando. And we have the host of Capital Tonight, Karina Kling, from Spectrum News One in Austin, Texas. Let me start with you, Karina. Thank you both so much for joining me. Karina, when did Governor Abbott come up with this strategy of sending asylum seekers to other jurisdictions?
Karina Kling: Yeah, thank you for having us. It's been several months now that this has been going on, and of course, Governor Abbott has framed it as a means to ease the strain on Texas border towns and call attention to President Biden's border policies. He started this program kind of much to the surprise of many, but also obviously it plays in very well to his Republican base. And we've even seen a recent polling in a number of polls, including our own, that has shown that this is popular among Texas voters. And so he's continued to do it. And, you know, it came out of a surprise at first, and didn't really tell people that this was happening. And then these migrants were arriving in some of these other cities. And it's just continued from there. And he's obviously been seeing the political side of this and how popular it has become among some Texans and continuing to do so. But again, I mean, he says that this is just making a point, trying to ease the strain on Texas border towns. And now the state has pumped in upwards of $14 million, sending 10,000 migrants to these Democratic-run cities.
Errol Louis: And when the question comes up of the politics of it, was this borne of the politics of the reelection campaign, or was this something that was going to require some kind of attention? And this happened to be the time at which he found this particular solution?
Karina Kling: I think it would depend on who you ask. I think Abbott would say that this is a solution and this is what he's doing to try and push for some solutions and ease the strain again on some of these border towns. And you will hear from people on both sides of the aisle in the border towns, the sheriffs, some of the city council members, local officials that are saying that this is a real problem. And we have seen this record number of migrant crossings and something needs to be done. And so, you know, we've had Operation Lone Star in effect for a while, which is this border mission that Governor Abbott also put in place, sending the National Guard and DPS, the Department of Public Safety troopers down to try and help with the influx of migrants. But, I mean, there's no beating around the bush that this is a reelection campaign year for Governor Abbott too, in probably the toughest fight that he's seen with a very formidable candidate in Beto O'Rourke, who has definitely been good at fundraising and has made a name for himself and in past elections that he's run for, and so Abbott has always wanted to make border security, immigration, the center of his campaign. And that's proven true again this time around. And again, it's something, border security, immigration, is always something that is top of mind for Texas voters.
Errol Louis: Okay. Now, Ybeth, let me bring you into this. Let's talk a little bit about why so many people are fleeing Venezuela. It's a much larger number than most people realize. I was looking at an article, I think was from the BBC, the British Broadcasting Company, that over 7 million people have left Venezuela since 2015. I mean, it's an actual literal flood of people leaving that country. Many of them have ended up in Florida. Why is everybody trying to leave there?
Ybeth Bruzual: So many people, as you correctly mentioned, millions of Venezuelans trying to leave because they're seeking political asylum. You know, the government, the regime in Venezuela is, they call themselves socialists, but, you know, they're rubbing elbows with people like Cuba, the government of Cuba, communists. So they lean that way. And a lot of people just don't have enough to eat. Medical care is just nonexistent. So what do you do? You look for, like many other migrants have done, search for a better tomorrow or, you know, you know, you have friends or family. And that means Florida. In south Florida, we have a place called Doral. And it's got a nickname, Doral, Venezuela, because that's where a lot of the highly concentrated Venezuelan folks have ended up, because they have a connection, like I said, through friends and family, trying to find a better tomorrow for their loved ones. And so the dynamic, many would say, is very different of any other migrant group. They are literally, you know, seeking political asylum because they're being persecuted and they just want to find a way out.
Errol Louis: It's interesting. My impression, you all can correct me if I'm wrong about this, is that this crisis develops and the first instinct of the average voter is to look at them, if you're in Texas, like, oh, more Mexicans, or if you're in Florida, like, oh, more Cubans. But it's different. It's unique, right? I read that there, Ybeth, over 122,000 folks who have come from Venezuela. Are they coming because they want to resettle here? Or is it simply desperation hoping for their government and society to destabilize and then they want to go back? What's your sense of that?
Ybeth Bruzual: I think it's what you first mentioned. I don't think it's the latter. It could be the latter. Could be a mixed bag, A, B or C, I guess I should probably pick C, but here's what I know. Okay. So where I live in downtown Orlando area, we have what we call central Florida. It spreads out nine counties. This is what I know, and I've lived here since 1981 as a child, fast forward, now an adult. What you hear at the bodegas, what you hear at the grocery store, for decades, to my ears, is like the Puerto Rican speaking Spanish. But now the air is literally filled with the Venezuelan accent. I hear it, I see it. And so I ask, right? There's, there's women that I know. There's families that I know right now who bring their cousins, their best friends, to do nails, to clean houses, whatever it is. And by the way, they land on airplanes and they just don't go back. So people say, oh, they crossed the border. Yes, they're crossing the border. But a lot of times coming into Florida is through a plane. And they just do whatever it takes to get from point A to point B to make money to live better. But here's something else I'm seeing very differently. It's not just blue collar folks that I'm seeing and extremely like, working class. I'm seeing Venezuelans coming here with deep pockets. They're opening bakeries, dry cleaners. They were doctors in Venezuela, here they cannot practice so they're working in some sort of, you know, medical office or facility in an environment they're very familiar with, even though they cannot treat patients. But they're around medical facilities and medical offices and they can make a living. So again, what I'm seeing is the socio economic impact is now very different. It's very diverse. Some are very blue collar. Some are coming with lots of money and investing in our local economy.
Errol Louis: Very interesting. It sounds like something I've seen a million times here in New York. People are trading status for opportunity so that the guy who's driving a car, you talk to him a little bit and it turns out, you know, he's from Cairo and he's an engineer. You know, it's just that he just happens to be driving a cab for now. And that doesn't last very long. Right. I mean, folks, once they get their bearings, the immigrant story is one I think that is well known in America that these folks are going to be, it sounds like from what you're saying, Ybeth, it sounds like they're going to be owning stores, rising in the corporate world, sending their kids to college and everything else. And that's going to happen, you know, like, what, five minutes from now?
Ybeth Bruzual: It's happening 5 minutes from now. And it's literally happening in real time as we speak, because the places that I frequent, and I go get something, you know, fixed, my shoes or something hemmed or tailored, and then I hear them speak Spanish. And then we get to talk and I'm like, oh, my gosh, okay, these folks are from Venezuela. And I get to talking to them. We have a huge organization called Venezuelans in Orlando, the head of that group, William Diaz, I was just texting with him earlier today. He's an interesting person because he's in contact with a lot of those who are here illegally and those who are doing it, as he calls it, the right way. And I tell you, his reaction has been really interesting. He has been a Democrat for as long as I've known him, for decades. And, you know, he was campaigning with the last cycle, Rick Scott. When Rick Scott was running for senator and people were calling me going, ‘oh, did you see William Diaz? Oh, my gosh, he's on the ad. And in the ad he said, I am, he said his name, he says, I'm a Democrat and I am supporting Rick Scott. And he thought, what's going on? He says that Rick Scott sat with him behind closed doors for months and they talked about what worries his community, the growing Venezuelan community here in central Florida. And he felt heard. But that was a few years ago. I'm checking in with him to see how he feels now going into this cycle with the current candidates.
Errol Louis: Speaking of the way, this does not neatly fit into partisan politics. I do notice that the mayor of El Paso, Texas, who happens to be a Democrat, has sent, what's the estimate like, something like 7,000 migrants to New York City. So, you know, everybody up here wants to try and make Governor Abbott the Republican into some sort of a bad guy. They want to make Ron DeSantis in Florida into some sort of Republican bad guy. But here's this Democratic mayor in El Paso sending us busload after busload. And that's just a practical matter, right? I mean, the cities really are being challenged by all of this down there, right, Karina?
Karina Kling: I mean, that is the case. And I think all of them would continue to go back to that. And I will say that the El Paso mayor has been very forthright in alerting the cities and kind of telling his own local community how this is working, and we didn't see that as much from Governor DeSantis and Governor Abbott some in the beginning. And I know that he tussled, and I'm sure we'll talk about that with your mayor. But in terms of El Paso, I mean, yeah, it's just it's a fact that they're overrun. The people that are trying to help just have really no more help to give, and they need some extra resources. And I will say that it is voluntary. The people that are getting on these buses in El Paso and even Governor Abbott has reiterated that it is voluntary for the migrants that are getting on these buses that are then being sent to some of these other cities. And so I think that for them, the politics of it can be kind of interesting because Governor Abbott is trying to make a political statement. I mean, that's clearly the case. But also a lot of these migrants are thankful for this ride and thankful to be going somewhere that's maybe closer to the family that they're trying to find and settle with or closer to a better opportunity for them. And just knowing that there are more resources, maybe somewhere else, I know that's not becoming the case because of just how many people are being sent to some of these cities, but it's an interesting situation in that I don't know how frustrated all of you know, if you talk about the migrants being political pawns, and I know that is what Democrats will phrase this as, but you hear from a lot of them on the ground and they're thankful.
Errol Louis: All right. We're going to take a break now.
Errol Louis: So, Karina, at one point early on, Mayor Adams talked about going down to Texas to campaign against Governor Abbott as a way to sort of retaliate for what he was additionally calling a stunt. I didn't think that was such a good idea. I didn't think anything would help Governor Abbott more than having a Democratic mayor of New York City come down and try and campaign against him. But the two really have gone back and forth. And more than the usual stuff, I mean, you know, the the mayor, I think, called Governor Abbott a liar. And I don't know what he's been saying down there, but it's gotten pretty nasty pretty quick.
Karina Kling: Yeah, I think that's how it worked, the Democratic candidate, as I mentioned, maybe said something to your mayor and just trying to appeal to crossover voters, independents, and probably doesn't need somebody. But Governor Abbott even acknowledged in the only debate that the two, O'Rourke and Abbott had, that I guess initially that the New York mayor, he had said the New York mayor never reached out about the plan to bus migrants to a city. But then Governor Abbott acknowledged that the office did reach out, just not the mayor himself. So trying to kind of couch some of that a bit. But yeah, there's been a feud. I mean, I think Governor Abbott continues to, you know, like this for his political ambitions and any Democrat pushing back on what he's doing is a win for him. I mean, obviously, he's doing this whole thing to draw attention to President Biden's policies, which he's not happy with and a lot of Texas is not happy with. And that is true of both sides. We've seen Democratic candidates, particularly border candidates, steer clear of the issue because they think that more needs to be done on the border and it's just not happening.
Errol Louis: And I must say, President Biden has been notably silent on this. Of course, our mayor of New York City has not criticized. He said, well, the federal government needs to help us, which is a very you know, that's mushy talk, right? I mean, you don't get the billion dollars you need out of Washington, D.C. by saying, hey, the federal government needs to help us. It needs to be personal, it needs to be direct, it needs to be specific and it needs to be urgent. And a lot of that stuff seems to be missing here, which is why it feels like this is going to just maybe drift for a while. Is that the right word?
Karina Kling: I think so. And I think every time that Governor Abbott's asked about why he's putting so many resources into it and the millions that are being spent and could it be spent better elsewhere, he just says, well, if the federal government were to step in and help out like we have asked them to do, then we wouldn't be doing this. It's their job. And so he feels and continues to play up the fact that he's doing what the federal government is not. And, you know, whether that rings true in all aspects is kind of up in the air, but that's how Governor Abbott frames it and a lot of people are on board with that. Again, somewhat in a bipartisan manner.
Errol Louis: However much he may complain about it, the reality is that Governor Abbott, like everybody else, has to obey the federal law, which says that if somebody shows up and says that they're going to seek asylum, you process their paperwork and then you let them go, right? I mean, you don't throw them in jail. You don't send them back. That's pretty much what's going to happen, whether anybody likes it or not.
Karina Kling: Yeah. And that's, I think, where we can get into a lot of the problems and controversies with what he started with Operation Lone Star and trying to have kind of these civil arrests and different people down along the border. And, you know, we've even heard from judges in border towns that are just like, this isn't right, and trying to figure out kind of the the legal ways of it, a lot of lawsuits have transpired from it. And so he's had a big operation. Governor Abbott's had a big operation in all of this and, you know, continues to kind of play out in what I guess legal to some aspect, but just kind of what's working and what's not.
Errol Louis: Ybeth, let me ask you this. I mean, the parallels are too obvious to ignore. A big part of southern Florida in particular, the culture and the politics, including the elected representatives, is built around the flight from Cuban communism of wave after wave of migrants who have really made quite a life and civilization down there, you could almost call it, right? I mean, making Miami the capital of Latin America in many regards. Why is this different? Why are these this other group, this newest group of people fleeing a different communist regime? Why is the governor putting them on planes and shipping them out and treating them like, you know, unwanted guests as opposed to part of this same trend that was so important to the development of Florida?
Ybeth Bruzual: Okay. So there's like, lots of layers to my answer. One is that Cuba is 90 miles from the southernmost point of Florida, so it's just down there. It's so close, it just feels different. I mean, you come to Florida all the time. I think I see the sign that says, Welcome to Florida. And there's a picture of Errol Louis going this is where I go to vacation with my family.
Errol Louis: My mother, my wife and hundreds, literally hundreds of cousins are all from there.
Ybeth Bruzual: I know, I see your social media posts, I love it. The proximity, I think, makes a difference. And at the end of the day, here's the bottom line in a nutshell, whatever, put a bow on it. Governor DeSantis is saying, look, blue states, you want to help the immigrants, you want to be their savior. Good luck. Here it is. You handle it. And so that's basically the bottom line, is what a lot of folks that I talk with say. So then Florida has enough to deal with, and so you blue states, you can go ahead and just deal with it. And that’s his way, I guess, of just cleaning his hands of it, and then somebody else can deal with it. Why does that feel different? Some people would say it's different and some would say it's not. The Cuban Americans, remember they have the Mariel boatlift, that was very controversial. You know, the jails were opened up and those people were put on the boats and sent over here. And that was very controversial. Just like that was controversial then. This is controversial now. At the end of the day, the common denominator for all of us is that it's somebody trying to start fresh and have a brighter tomorrow for their family as they escape political asylum. But at what point do you draw the line and say, you know what, I wish I could buy a car for everyone in my family, but I can't afford it. So I'll give you a gift card to a gas station and good luck. That's the best we can do. A lot of people saying you want to save everyone, but you can't in Florida saying "enough already.”
Errol Louis: Very interesting. It always plays out a little differently here in New York City because it's so much part of the civic DNA here. We've got that whole statue out in the harbor and we almost literally pay tribute to this notion every day. And because we're a city of over eight and a half million people, it takes a lot of extra people before you even start to notice that they're there. But we're starting to get to that point, and it's going to be an interesting development to see how we navigate up here, the collision between our values, at least our stated values, and our reality. It's something we've never had to really deal with before, but I think it its going to become an issue.
Ybeth Bruzual: Interesting point. And as difficult as the situation may be with the inflation, according to many analysts, the worst we've seen in 40-plus years, with the White House saying, no, we're not in a recession, but more and more experts are saying, no, no, no, it's knocking on our door. Even with the difficulties we have here in America, people from other countries are still willing to come here and say, whatever your worst day is in the U.S. of A, is a good day for them, because the situation is so dire in their native countries. And B-T-W, there's so many Venezuelans, too, here in town in central Florida that support Governor DeSantis, who are ardent, deep Republicans who donate. And you want to talk about having a guest like that on your show. Chew on that, because we can line them up. They're out there. They exist.
Errol Louis: Yes, they’re the pull the ladder up behind me coalition, I guess.
Ybeth Bruzual: They hold rallies. They have signs with the Venezuelan flag and there they are.
Errol Louis: Wow. Very interesting. So now, Karina, one thing that I've been really curious about is when the discussion goes on in Texas about this situation, I'm assuming that Texas, like other border jurisdictions, including New York City, has been really proud of its ability to welcome immigrants, you know, generally speaking, and that the logistics may be challenging, but that the underlying value of helping people become Americans, helping people become part of society is something that people really do believe. I mean, what's the, how does it work down there?
Karina Kling: You know, that's another interesting point, because you hear from the business community, you hear from even Republican-led businesses and our Texas Association of Business, that is very much a Republican leaning group, but they say we need to make some kind of pathway to citizenship. We need something, because without the immigrants that have migrated to Texas, our economy would just not be what it is. It would not be good. The people that have come here and have made Texas what it is and the work that they've done in terms of being able to help our economy grow and do the jobs that they have come here to do has been remarkable. But the bigger thing, I think, in the fight that you see so much, is just legal migration and coming across legally, and when we talk about illegal versus legal and you start to get into the politics of all of that, and what's best, and what do we see? So, yes, I think Texas is welcoming of immigrants. Again, that may depend on who you ask and the politics involved there. But I mean, the state wouldn't be what it is, and we just saw the latest census numbers that the Hispanic population, Latinos are the largest plurality, I guess, in Texas now, and just trying to make sure that there is the outreach to the community, and there's been a lot of frustration over, Republicans are really gaining some ground in South Texas and we're seeing that. And they're really making a push for specifically three congressional seats there. And all of the Republicans just outraised their Democratic opponents. And so the push is there. But I think, just in terms of the historic nature of that, Latinos vote Democratic is just changing so much too, and outreach is critical and trying to make sure that the community is not forgotten and it's not all one and the same, and people trying to make sure that they're understanding how rich and diverse this culture is.
Errol Louis: And Karina, are Venezuelans settling enough in clusters that their own sort of communities are starting to be felt or recognized or take root?
Karina Kling: I don't know that I've seen that as much, and I may not be the best person to ask about that. I definitely haven't seen it in Austin, but I think within some of the border communities that may be happening more. I mean, a lot of them are then migrating to other places within the state. I can't speak to what Ybeth has seen, but I have not seen that as much.
Errol Louis: It's interesting Ybeth, because I see from one point of view the localities in Florida, in Texas and in New York, sort of creating a de facto national policy and system, you know, or migration route, if you want to call it that. So, for example, I was interviewing our junior senator, Kirsten Gillibrand, and I asked her, you know, what do you think should happen? And she said, listen, what we should do is after they arrive in New York City, help some of these folks make their way upstate to places like Buffalo, Rochester, a lot of these depopulated areas in the northern part of New York. We have actually already done this with African immigrants, with Asian immigrants, and they've been a shot in the arm and helped revitalize any number of towns up there. And, you know, you start to see the outlines of like, okay, this could, maybe this kind of works. You know, they show up in Texas or Florida. You send them to New York. We send them upstate. People get settled. Small towns that need population, need workers and need, you know, some vitality. Maybe this will end up as something other than a disaster, Ybeth, what do you think?
Ybeth Bruzual: You know what? I don't know. I don't know how to process what you just said, because I think some people would be like, okay, so let's send them where it's the coldest and people have left? Oh, okay. So if it works for you, New York, you're right. It would help revitalize areas. By the way, I go to Buffalo a lot because my husband used to play basketball over there back in his college days. So we do visit above state college area and Oswego is something that we get talked about.
Errol Louis: Pretty chilly up there in the winter. Three feet of snow. Four feet of snow. Yes.
Ybeth Bruzual: It is. But you know what? Migrants are hearty and they're hard workers. And so they'll just deal with it. But it's not going to be a comfortable situation. But it could be win-win depending on how you look at it. Something I wanted to bring up, is that one of the stories that I've seen get a lot of traction is that there is possibly clusters of immigrants who are now coming in to Florida to help with what, hurricane recovery? Oh, there you go. There is a labor shortage for just everything across the board, right? But now that Florida got slammed with Hurricane Ian, there is, and I need to reach out to the governor's office to ask, I suspect I know what the answer might be, but it was still reaching out on official capacities to see what they can share with us. But yeah, there's been a couple of write-ups noting that there have been clusters of immigrants here illegally who have been summoned to a place, Florida, to help in debris recovery. I don't know what legs that story has, but if it's true, wow, wouldn’t that be interesting in a place where you've been, you know, bused away from or flown away from now asking for help.
Errol Louis: Sure. Sure. I mean, look, there's this question for the arriving folks in New York. Hey, how quick can we get them work permits? I think there's some mandatory 90-day period you have to wait before you're even eligible to start applying for permission to work. And when the officials here were saying that, I was thinking is like, this is New York City, these people are going to work. I mean, believe me, they're going to find work. They're going to walk out of the homeless shelter that they're staying in or the hotel that they've been put up in. They're going to stand by the side of the road or they're going to go to the Home Depot parking lot. They're going to ask a couple of questions. People figure out how to do this. I mean, 40% of New York City was born outside of this country. This has been going on for a couple of centuries now. People are going to find work.
Ybeth Bruzual: And there's ways to circumvent it. For example, I know of a few, quite a few. huge nationally, dare I say, internationally, recognized hotel brands. And how did they go around it here in central Florida to hire those who have who are here illegally? They subcontract right, companies who bring in workers. And so, I mean, I know people who tell me if they know that there's going to be some sort of sweep, like, you see everybody scurry and get taken out of there, on, just picking a random date, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, because they know they're going to be checking staff or whatever, and then the next week they come on back and that's how, so a subcontractor. Yeah.
Errol Louis: No, that's right. That's right. And they contract with, you know, Mario's, you know, Mario's cleaning service and where Mario gets his cleaners from, well, that's up to Mario, you know, don't don't bother me. Yeah, that's an interesting way to do it. In New York they're pretty, just, blatant about it. Look, to wrap this up, Karina, I had first believed that all of this would change on November 9th, that the day after the election, having secured the immediate political goals, Governor Abbott would just say, you know, that's enough of that. We've got to have a more serious conversation with Washington. We've got to have a more professional relationship with New York and other jurisdictions, and that a lot of this will just kind of go away. What is your sense of that?
Karina Kling: I don't know that I think that that will happen. I think that the minute November 9th happens, 2024 rolls into everybody's minds, and Governor Abbott potentially has presidential aspirations. And so maybe there will be some conversations. I don't know that I'm holding my breath for any of that, but that would be a right thing and the mature thing to do and trying to figure out a better way to make this work for all cities involved, but…
Errol Louis: You're probably right. I'm forgetting like, the first rule of political analysis, which is that it's not about the current race, it's always about the next one. And of course, Abbott has a rival, Ybeth, in the form of Ron DeSantis, who has raised, I think he's raised like, what, like $130 million for his reelection campaign. I mean…
Ybeth Bruzual: Correct.
Errol Louis: And it's clearly not just so he can go back to Tallahassee.
Karina Kling: I thought Governor Abbott had a big warchest.
Ybeth Bruzual: You're right, 100% on point on those dollars and cents and that breakdown. Governor Ron DeSantis is praised by so many Republicans here in Central Florida and across the state. I mean, you have images of Governor DeSantis with, I don't know, two weeks after the hurricane barreled through, like, Naples and Fort Myers with a temporary bridge, that he was able to get, you know, the forces together. And he's at a podium. And there's the first convoy of all the rescue trucks and power trucks. I mean, you talk about the imagery, right? Meanwhile, the price of gas, bread, eggs keeps going up across the nation. And people in Florida are saying, you know what, this guy's doing it right. So they're waiting until this election, and then they're poised and laser-focused on 2024. But a lot of Republicans that I check in with are tiptoeing around the idea of DeSantis because they want to see what Mr. Trump will do, and many of them will not go on the record saying this, but some are saying they wish something would happen with the January 6th group so then they could kind of put former President Trump off to the side and then clear the way for Governor Ron DeSantis. But Governor Ron DeSantis is kiss the ring, if you will, in the past, of former President Trump, so he's kind of just sitting in the wings. But the numbers are very favorable for DeSantis. And in Florida, the polling shows time and time again he's got a solid lead right now.
Errol Louis: Wow. Okay. Well, look, the one positive thing about this turning into the 2024 presidential campaign is that the candidates presumably will be forced not just to talk about border policy, but about foreign policy, since it is ultimately the destabilization of that entire region that has led to 7 million people flowing out of Venezuela. And as tough as the problems are that we're talking about here, you got even bigger problems if you happen to be in, you know, Ecuador, or Colombia or even Brazil, where hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans are ending up. We'll have to leave that broader discussion for another time.
Ybeth Bruzual: So much I wanted to say.
Errol Louis: But we've got time. We'll get to it. Thanks so much for joining me. Ybeth, and always good to talk with you as well, Karina.
Karina Kling: Thank you.
Ybeth Bruzual: Thank you.
Errol Louis: That's going to do it for this episode of You Decide. As always, thanks for listening. I'd love to hear your thoughts about this conversation or any of the others. You can find me on Twitter at Errol Louis or leave a message for me at 212-379-3440. You can also email us at yourstoryny1@Charter.com. And if you're looking for more analysis of New York politics, you should subscribe to and listen to my colleagues’ podcast. It's called Off Topic/On Politics, and it's hosted by political reporters Zach Fink, Courtney Gross and Juan Manuel Benítez. Those episodes come out every Friday. I'll be back next week. Thanks so much for listening.